asoiafuniversity:

nobodysuspectsthebutterfly:

It’s pretty bullshit, yeah. The North is… not exactly spectacular re gender roles and women’s rights. There is some good, mind you. The Mormont ladies are warrior women, but they pretty much have to be, due to their harsh climate and fear of raids from the ironborn. Possibly some of the mountain clans and far north houses (e.g. Umber) may raise their women similar to wildling spearwives, due to the fact they’re basically the same ethnicity and culture as the wildlings, and also to defend themselves from being kidnapped by wildling men. And we know that the Starks’ great-grandmother, Arya Flint of the mountain clans, is the reason why Bran was so good at climbing per Old Nan.

But in general? No, it’s not progressive at all. House Stark has never had a ruling Lady of Winterfell or Queen in the North in all its 8000 years of existence. And there’s two examples we know for certain where that was deliberately removed as a possibility:

• the possibly legendary Brandon Stark “the Daughterless”, whose only child, the “Blue Rose of Winterfell”, was kidnapped by the wildling Bael the Bard (but they supposedly fell in love), and her son became the next Lord Stark
• the situations of Serena and Sansa Stark, daughters and only children of the eldest son of Cregan Stark… and after he died, it seems likely they were forcefully married to their half-uncles so that they could steal the inheritance from them, with other inheritance problems following afterwards.

Though, to be fair, there have been other ruling ladies in a few other Northern houses (currently Jonelle Cerwyn and Lyessa Flint at least), and Winterfell women have served as the equivalent of regents at some points. Ned intended Catelyn to rule Winterfell while he was in King’s Landing, that she would train Robb to rule and make him part of her councils (but unfortunately Bran’s accident kept her from doing so). And apparently there’s a story regarding “the She-Wolves of Winterfell”, a group of fierce Stark ladies (wives, widows, mothers, and grandmothers), who may have ruled Winterfell during a time when Lord Beron Stark was dying of wounds taken while fighting the ironborn. (GRRM intended for this unfinished Dunk & Egg story to be part of the Dangerous Women anthology, but unfortunately he couldn’t finish it in time and they used an excerpt from his Fire & Blood writings instead.)

And there are certainly fierce northern ladies, who aren’t warriors like the Mormonts, but do their best to defend their rights for the dignity of their house and their loyalty to House Stark, such as Alys Karstark and Wylla Manderly. Alys fled to the Wall to prevent an unwanted marriage from her scheming uncles (who were planning on selling out her older brother to the Lannisters and Stannis to the Boltons); and Wylla bravely defended Robb’s memory and the Manderly history of loyalty, despite her supposedly Lannister/Bolton-loyal father and her Frey betrothed. (She didn’t know her father had secret plans to deal with the Freys and Boltons, but had a honest and fierce reaction regardless; also note her older sister Wynafryd, who was told the plans, but had to pretend to go along with everything including pretending to be happy about her own upcoming Frey marriage.) And of course there’s Lyanna Stark, who at 14 defended her father’s bannerman, young Howland Reed, from being assaulted by asshole bigots, and acted in disguise as a mystery knight to further chastise them.

However… when it comes down to it, and specifically regarding the recent generations of House Stark, let me give you these quotes:

Q: How closely does Westeros resemble the real Middle Ages in terms
of social customs and gender roles? For example, would highborn ladies
have been expected to bathe guests and know how to make cheese, etc.?
Sansa’s education and training seemed rather impractical – did the fault
lie with her parents or were all young ladies raised like that?

GRRM: Sansa
is more than just a young lady.  She’s the daughter, not just of a
noble, but of one of the most powerful nobles in Westeros.  The great
houses stand far above the lesser nobles, as the lesser nobles do above
the smallfolk. She would not make cheese, no. But Arya might think it would be fun.

–source

“Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it.”
–Ned Stark, AGOT, Arya II

[Bran’s weirwood vision of the past, of Lyanna and Benjen:]
Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as
they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of
the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a
rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn’t be right. If the girl was
Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long.
And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him.
She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out
from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout.
“You be quiet, stupid,” the girl said, tossing her own branch aside.
“It’s just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?” –ADWD, Bran III

“[I]t is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too.” –Ned Stark, AGOT, Catelyn II

“[Bran] was going to be a knight,” Arya was saying now. “A knight of the Kingsguard. Can he still be a knight?”
“No,” Ned said. He saw no use in lying to her. “Yet someday he may
be the lord of a great holdfast and sit on the king’s council. He might
raise castles like Brandon the Builder, or sail a ship across the
Sunset Sea, or enter your mother’s Faith and become the High Septon.”
But he will never run beside his wolf again, he thought with a sadness
too deep for words, or lie with a woman, or hold his own son in his arms.
Arya cocked her head to one side. “Can I be a king’s councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?”
“You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.”

–AGOT, Eddard V

It’s not Catelyn with the restrictive views of gender roles. It’s the men of House Stark. I hope that helps!

#I don’t know if it’s a show thing or what (since ive never seen the show) #but this idea that Catelyn’s ‘southron ideas’ have corrupted the Starlings #and that Ned and the North are all WE WANT WARRIOR WOMEN! #is SUCH bullshit #and it’s EVERYWHERE #i love Ned Stark to death #and he loves and respects the hell out of his wife #and adores his daughters #but he ain’t lookin’ to smash the patriarchy folks! #or to dismantle any of the traditional feudal tenets of Westerosi society #he’s a wonderful man but he believes in those tenets #sorry

(tags via @dknc3)

#also re: ned he sure as fuck didn’t listen to his own sister when she told him she didn’t want to marry robert and why #instead of believing her and lobbying for her he took his friend’s side #he told her essentially that her feelings were invalid #then later told arya – who’s compared to her all the time – that her rebellious streak was just a phase #that she’d end up like every other highborn maiden and marry and have kids and that’s it #just because ned treats his wife fairly doesn’t mean he’s Progressive

(tags via @samwpmarleau)

#I adore House Stark #but there’s been some weird rewriting of them lately as The Wokest House #and they’re just…not #the patriarchy is alive and well in Westeros #the closest we get to a progressive house is the Martells #(also people just want to blame Cat for everything bad lbr) (tags via @thefairfleming)